Opt-In Gets Scummy (Updated)
As I’ve been working on launching my new newsletter for my clients and close associates, I’ve been thinking about opt-in mailing lists. As my cherished acquaintance Christopher Penn says, “You live or die by your list.”
In reviewing material for my newsletter marketing push I came across a website run by marketing “guru” Justin Michie. He belongs to a certain segment of the marketing industry that I think of as the “Internet Warriors Forum Disciples”. Now, I don’t know if Justin is an actual member of that forum, but the style of marketing they practice is usually typified by things like free (but recycled) giveaway “reports” and ebooks, a heavy concentration on affiliates, the patented Really Long Sales Page™. You may recognize some of the more prominent practitioners such as Mike Filsaime , Cody Moya, Willie Crawford, etc.
These guys are all about their opt-in lists, but make no mistake, it’s not because they’ve gotten the Seth Godin religion, it’s because they fear the U.S. CAN-Spam Act.
Anyway, at Justin’s blog I found the post “What’s The Best Way To Build Your List?” where he’s plugging a product for which he is an affiliate (and invites you to become one as well). In describing how he uses the product, “the $7 Script,” he states this:
After completing payment through Paypal, they’re sent to an opt-in page where they need to opt-in before they can download the product (you get a new subscriber).
In other words, he sells you a download of a product, then AFTER you pay via paypal, he requires you to join his Opt-In list to actually receive the product you’ve paid for. This kind of hubris disgusts me at a very primal level.
UPDATE:
I haven’t actually been to the Warriors Forum in over a year, so I was heartened when, in the flood of visits to this post from there I found this: Wso Sellers: Stop forcing buyers to opt-in.
I guess there are responsible types there nowadays. My respect for some of those folks (the ones who “get it”) has just gone up a notch.
This post is also getting some traction from The Internet Marketing Inner Circle forum (members include Mike Filsaime and Willie Crawford), but it’s closed to non-members, so I have no idea what their take on the topic is.
Also, in the comments section, Justin Michie has responded that he is considering editing the offending blog post. Unfortunately he also is asserting that mandatory opt-in is “usual”. If that is true, it is sad. CAN-Span, anyone?
Oh, one more thing. I don’t actually want to diss Willie Crawford because he once gave me an awesome BBQ recipe (for opting in)!
What do you think- does this cross the line? Speak your peace in the comments section below!
Creative Commons photo by gynti_46
10 Comments so far
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Yeah, that’s typical of the “all sales and no value” crowd. And I just recoil in disgust (really) from this type of attitude.
As my friend and business owner Vaughan Fulton said to a customer, “It’s not about the money.” And I vastly prefer that attitude.
Hear, hear Becky!
While Rapid Action Profit can be used that way it’s discouraged. Many who use the script believe that it’s ok to ask someone to join your list before or after making a purchase, but that it’s not ok to require them to opt in to get something that they’re already paid for.
Most of my peers believe that that’s just plain dumb because if customers complain Paypal is likely to freeze their account anyway… and we also don’t see the point in having anyone on your list that doesn’t want to be there.
It’s not about the size of the list, it’s about the relationship with the list.
Willie Crawford
willie is totally right on this one.
The relationship of the list, and how you treat them is what I call your list “KARMA”
if you know you giving them crap, then you know no one will buy.
However if they get on your list and they love your stuff, your blog posts, they enjoy your emails, and some even wait by the email inbox and wait for you email to come in so they can click and read. Then you know you have a winner.
Worrying about $7 scripts is nonchelon, they users get what they pay for, they work and they build your list at the same time. hmmmm i guess i see your point, hmmmm dunno.
If you have ever used the $7 script than you would know that the customer is not required to opt in to receive the product.
Willie, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I’m glad to see that you think this is a poor idea.
Johnny, I don’t know what you mean by “nonchelon” (Non-echelon? Nonchalant?), but I bet Michie does sell a lot of these because he’s tied in to others like Willie who
promote his productscross-promote his offers.Thomas, no, I’ve never used it, I’m just going by what the guy selling it is saying. Perhaps if Justin were to retract what he said in his blog, that would provide clarification.
Seeing how this post is about my blog post, I thought I’d chime in here and mention a couple of things.
1. First, when using the $7 script, though it’s strongly suggested, it’s not required that you opt-in to download the product. Perhaps, I should reword that part of my blog post to be more clear.
2. If someone buys through a shopping cart of any kind, they usually need to enter their contact information and opt-in to that product’s list anyways. The only difference here is that it’s before the purchase instead of after it.
I’m not a big believer in making someone opt-in for something they’ve already paid for if they don’t want to, which is why there’s a link on the $7 script’s squeeze page to bypass the opt-in and just download the product.
Though I’d prefer that they opt-in, if they don’t want to be on my list, then there’s no reason to have them on it.
Justin, Giving a customer the option is fine, however when you say:
“If someone buys through a shopping cart of any kind, they usually need to enter their contact information and opt-in to that product’s list anyways. The only difference here is that it’s before the purchase instead of after it.”
I have to have my doubts. Yes, you usually have to supply your email addy so you can be emailed the download link, but in the wide world of marketing aside from what you folks do, mandatory opt-in is unusual.
If I’m selling downloads of say, my band’s album, rather than an internet marketing strategy ebook, or “special report” or somesuch, I doubt mandatory opt-in is usual. In fact mandatory opt-in is actually opt-out: “You don’t like it? Opt-out of buying the product!”
I’m glad you are considering editing your blog post. Since the script in question is user configurable, I hope people are smart enough not to use that option.
I’m a bit puzzled by your comment about “fearing CAN-SPAM”.
Just like paying your taxes or stopping at a stop sign, any ethical marketer will follow the CAN-SPAM laws because it’s the law.
Besides, CAN-SPAM doesn’t really prohibit spam, if you read it carefully. I’d like to see it made stronger.
The $7 dollar script, which I purchased but never used, is, in my opinion, designed to create a mailing list of buyers.
I agree that holding a product hostage until a person opts in to a mailing list is not a good practice. I use the Rapid Action Profit script, and while I do “encourage” opt-in, it’s by no means required when you make a purchase.
Best regards,
Tom Brownsword, CISSP®
P.S. — DISCLAIMER: I am a member and moderator at the Internet Marketing Inner Circle and a friend of Willie Crawford.
Tom, thank you for taking the time to respond.
In a way, I’m a bit disappointed that nobody has really disagreed with my premise that forcing opt-in is bad!
Of course in the above-linked forum thread, there are a few chuckleheads making comments like “Gee, I bet your list is tiny.” but the lion’s share of comments seem to view this as not only bad for the marketer’s reputation, but an affront to purchasers as well.
Good for you, Really Long Sales Page™ guys!
Oh, and Justin HAS revised his web page, so it no longer recommends forced opt-in. Good for you, too.